From the author: Lama Ole Nydahl, psychologist Evgeny Gabelev and astrologer Vladimir Timofeev talk about the history, practice and present day of Buddhism. “Don’t take for granted what I say out of personal respect. Do not take for granted anything that your teachers tell you, or that is written in your books, or that everyone around you thinks is true. Test everything by your own experience and common sense, and if you find that a teaching does not correspond to your experience or does not lead to lasting happiness, then reject it, whatever its source. And only when you find something that corresponds to experience and leads to long-term happiness, accept it with all your heart and follow it in your life.” Buddha Shakyamuni Is it worth sprinkling sugar on the Buddha? Does wisdom need to be sweetened? Are directness and correctness compatible - and which one to choose? Dharma is not a sweet served with tea in pleasant company. Not a cure for the poor. No reason to cry. We decided to shake off the powdered sugar coating from the teacher's head. We chose directness. He himself asked for this. Lama Ole Nydahl, psychologist Evgeny Gabelev and astrologer Vladimir Timofev talk about the ancient teachings of Buddha and modern European consciousness. Lama Ole is one of the first to introduce real Buddhism to the West. Forty years ago, at the request of his teacher, the 16th Karmapa Rangjung Dorje, head of the Karma-Kagyu lineage, he began to found meditation centers and teach us the authentic practices that were passed on from teacher to student by many generations of yogis of ancient India and Tibet. Over the years, in dozens He founded more than 700 centers in countries. Thanks to his activism, millions of people study and practice Buddhism today. It is difficult to find in the Buddhist world a person as authoritative, experienced and active. We modern Western Buddhists want to test certain fundamental questions through experience and common sense. Are Eastern tradition and Western freedom compatible? Does the Buddha's teaching allow for doubt? What is the role of a Buddhist teacher in the modern world? What is the secret of Enlightenment - and is it achievable? Vladimir: The Teachings of the Buddha were born twenty-five centuries ago in a distant, long-vanished country. The world has changed a lot since then. Is Buddhism ready to meet modern realities? Is it open for discussion? Are there any taboo topics in it? Questions that are not welcome to ask? Words that are not usually doubted? Can we talk about everything openly and directly? Ole: Buddhism is the path of freedom. One of the true qualities of our mind is fearlessness. Prohibitions come from fear. We don't need to become like those religions where we just have to stand and bow. There are no taboo topics or questions. But many may not like my answers. It is important that people do not keep what worries them behind their backs. Those who hesitate to ask questions can become very confused. They have to come up with their own answers and argue with them. This may prove difficult. Then such a person leaves, offended by himself, and we may not see him for a long time. It’s difficult to develop in this way. Evgeniy: Many of your students consider you something like a living god. People with an infantile personality project onto you the image of an ideal Father. They feel like little children under reliable care and protection. They believe that you are omniscient and have supernatural powers. They are right? Are you God...?! Ole: No. But I'm 69 years old, I've done all sorts of weird things in my life... I've probably done everything that people can do. I was a professional boxer, I smuggled 34 kilograms of gold into Indonesia, my wife and I spent 4 years in the Himalayas learning meditation. I travel around the world twice a year, jump with a parachute, ride a sports motorcycle, once we were kidnapped by militants in Colombia…. I have always had an interesting life. Buddhism is not a religion of faith, but a religion of experience. And it is for independent and courageous people. Not for those who are looking for someone to shift responsibility for their lives to. I try to speak only when I am completelyI'm sure I know what I'm talking about. I would rather remain silent than say something that may not be true. It's better to ask knowledgeable people than to look stupid. I know it's embarrassing to make mistakes as a teacher, so I try to avoid it as much as possible. Because when people have confidence in you, you can help them better. The teacher must be reliable. Then you can rely on what he teaches and use it for your development. Evgeniy: For a European, arguing with a teacher is natural. It is normal to doubt any truth. The student does not consider his professor to be a higher being and does not take vows of allegiance to him... Can your students argue with you? Object to you, oppose your own opinion and defend it, while remaining your students? Ole: I learn from my students just as they learn from me. They are my eyes and ears. Of course, I read the press and try to keep up with events, but the students are my antennas. And when they have problems, difficult situations, I take them seriously and we talk about it. This happens because they want to talk about it. If they do not want to speak frankly, they want to keep their problem to themselves, then usually they gradually move aside. Sometimes it takes a couple of years and you become friends again - after people have worked out their problems. But I’m not omniscient, I make mistakes—just not very many of them. And in the long term, with the blessing of our line, it is always possible to correct mistakes, to make everything work for people. Vladimir: Not all Buddhist teachers inspire equal confidence. They have different styles and different experiences. What to do when interest in learning is mixed with personal distrust? Evgeniy: When we talk about Western science, the question of personal trust does not arise at all. There, the personality of the teacher has nothing to do with the truth of what he states. We demand evidence - not sympathy. Is it true that in Buddhism, personal trust in a teacher is the main proof of truth? Ole: In Buddhism, we check everything. A teacher, having encountered mistrust, must teach something that does not require trust in him personally. There is much in the Buddha's teaching that can be taught directly from a book, which is not personal and does not require trust in the personality of the teacher. In fact, only I give absolute teachings about the nature of Mind in our lineage. Of course people mention them in their lectures. But the only one who reads entire courses about this is me. I've been meditating for 40 years and I know what I'm talking about. I am responsible for this. We just had a scientific congress where 1800 people were present where they talked about research into my brain, things were found in it that had not been seen anywhere, and this was thanks to 40 years of meditation. In addition, those who know me can be sure that I am always happy, I never have bad days, I have a lot of energy. And such things are the result of meditation. A scientific approach to everything we do is necessary. It is important that people know that behind statements there is experience. Only then does trust arise. Vladimir: In the era of the advent of Buddhism, there were very strict relations of subordination between elders and juniors. How hierarchical is the relationship between teacher and student today? Your teacher is the Karmapa. Are your students automatically his students? Or is it a matter of personal choice? Is it possible to be a disciple of the Karmapa and not be your disciple? And the opposite? Ole: Everything I do, I do for my teacher. For Karmapa. But there are many people who don't like my style. I speak for modern free people, for the laity. For some, more traditional methods or monastic teachings are more suitable. Such people go to monks and nuns, who do not provoke them so much, and then people are happy there. Karmapa is a broad-ranging lama, his approach covers many. I deal with yogis, those who want direct comprehension. People who are interested in monastic rules and learned things do not come to me, I send them to others. I work for dharma 20 hours a day and I can't take on any more commitmentsor adapt to everyone. It is important that a person choose the style and teaching that is close to him. It happens that a person discovers that we are not suitable for him. There is no need to impose on him. Evgeniy: We cannot always follow the highest ideals. The realities of life correct idealism. In all eras, religion and spirituality have been mixed with politics. It is difficult for a European person interested in Buddhism to understand all our oriental intricacies. Separate Truth from political conjuncture. There is a real split in many lines. The government of China, which now includes Tibet, supports some lamas and rejects others. And not all of the Tibetans in exile agree with him. It is difficult for a European to understand whose side is right. How to explain what is happening to millions of people interested in Buddhism? Is it possible for us to somehow distance ourselves from politics? Vladimir: Today there are two chapters in the Karma-Kagyu lineage*. One was appointed by the Chinese Politburo. Many of the high lamas in exile also recognized him. The other candidate is supported by those who were close to the previous Karmapa. And we are not talking about Western-style elections. Who actually is the real incarnation of the previous Karmapa is being discussed! Both sides claim the Truth. Those involved in the dispute have the highest authority and status in the Buddhist world. Isn't the ancient Tibetan system of searching and recognizing reincarnations a fiction? Does rebirth itself exist? Who can say this with certainty - if this happens? Perhaps we confuse ourselves by mindlessly believing in ancient teachings? Ole: When politics are involved, truth is often sacrificed. In fact, high lamas also have a responsibility to their people. The reason the Dalai Lama is supporting the Chinese challenger is because of the forced Sinification of Tibet. Tibetans are losing their culture very quickly. The Dalai Lama knows that unless he gets there very quickly, everything will be lost. So he wants to be able to talk to the Chinese. This is his duty to the people. But he can only do this through someone who is recognized by the Chinese. The Chinese chose Urgyen Trinley - they gave him the title, organized a trip to India in order to get the Black Crown of the Karmapa. Then something didn’t work out for them. However, he is still recognized by them as Karmapa. One way or another, we need to think about our Lineage, I can’t think about him... We want to practice meditation, not fight for power. This has always been accepted in our lineage. This is what our personal Teacher with Hannah asked us to do - the 16th Karmapa, who was our teacher for 12 years. Europeans survived the occupation during the Second World War, so they will never trust the one who was appointed to occupy your the country is an enemy. The Chinese, for Tibetan culture, for Buddhism, are, or at least were, enemies. During the Cultural Revolution they killed a quarter of all Tibetans and destroyed everything they could. Now they not only want to sell cheap shoes, but also to be popular in the world, so they change a little. Now they want to rule the Buddhist world. Speak on his behalf. To do this, they create a split and create situations that discredit Buddhism, such as this. Therefore, when I hear about the Karmapa appointed by the Chinese, I do not believe that they are right. I do not believe that the Chinese Politburo has clairvoyant abilities. They are too red for that. In general, if you look deeper, the nature of the Mind, death and rebirth are much deeper topics than many Europeans think. It is, of course, better to receive teachings on them personally from a competent Buddhist teacher whom you can trust, than to get information from newspapers with sensationalism and gossip. Buda discovered, and we can verify this experimentally, that there is no solid and unchanging human essence, a permanent “I”, nothing that could be reborn by changing bodies like we change clothes. There is no unchanging and unique “soul”. If everything were as many people in Europe and India believe at the popular level, thenIndeed, the dispute would be principled. However, Awareness is not a thing but a changing flow. And like a river, it can intricately meander and divide. We know that high-level bodhisattvas can direct their Mind wherever they want. They choose the place and time of their new birth - and can announce it in advance. This is what the Karmapas, Shamarpas and other high lamas did for centuries. Moreover, they can create several incarnations for themselves living on Earth at the same time. Even tens and hundreds of incarnations. If you want to help others a lot, then this is natural. We are not surprised by situations when several personalities live in one body. With different characters and habits, they even have different names. This is probably very inconvenient for them. But this is a scientific fact; scientists have observed many such “hotel bodies.” This means there is nothing supernatural in the fact that a high lama can have several of his incarnations in different bodies at the same time. In the case of the Karmapa, there is his will, in accordance with which Thay Dorje was found and recognized as Karmapa. The Chinese protege does not comply with this will. In addition, Karmapas and Shamarpas existed side by side for centuries, and every time the old Karmapa left his body, Shamarpa found and recognized his new incarnation. In turn, Karmapa found and recognized the next Shamarpa. The current Shamarpa recognized Thay Dorje as Karmapa. He is not a politician, and was guided not by the decisions of the Politburo, but by his wisdom, methods and testament of the Karmapa. I have no reason to doubt his decision. I think his word here is more significant than the words of all politicians combined. He knows what he is doing and what he is saying. Vladimir: Let's return from east to west. Christianity is leaving Europe. A holy place is never empty. There is a real battle going on for the minds and hearts of Western people. Eastern teachings and neo-paganism, new wave esotericism and Islam, which is rapidly spreading its influence. Buddhism also claims to be the ruler of minds. There have been conflicts between representatives of different faiths for centuries. Old grievances and unsettled scores remain. Do they pose a danger to the ability to freely choose your path? Evgeniy: Ole, you have repeatedly spoken about the danger of Islam for freedom and the values ​​of Western civilization. We know that Islamic conquests brought a lot of troubles to the Buddhist world. It was a thousand years ago... For Europe, Islam was the enemy. The Islamic world carries completely different values ​​of a much more ancient culture than the European one. Many of them seem cruel and archaic to us. This world is aggressively invading the very heart of Europe. Hundreds of mosques have sprung up in its capitals in recent decades, and thousands of dark faces have appeared on the streets. Not everyone is happy about this. Just like a century ago, the Islamic world was not too happy about European colonization.... In Russia the situation is completely different. Here Christians and Muslims have lived in peace for five centuries. Peoples who profess Islam did not come to us from African colonies; they have lived here for thousands of years. Our roots are intertwined. We respect each other. In our cities, Orthodox churches and Muslim mosques have long stood side by side. We are one people, one country. Lots of mixed families. Everyone has Muslim friends, partners, and often relatives. We don't want to be their enemies. There were no crusades or jihads on our land. And the fate of Yugoslavia does not appeal to us. We do not want authoritative and respected Buddhist teachers to bring religious discord to our land. Europe has its own problems. We have our own. We do not want to be Europe's shield against its yesterday's colonies and pay for its past sins. Ole: I do not engage in anti-Islamic polemics when I am in Russia. My Russian friends said that this is not what you need. And I don't do that. If I am asked here about my position regarding Islam, I say that I know that Islamism is not your problem, everything is fine with you, well, maybe with the exception of a few bombed schools…. But in the West this is a serious problem, and I want you to know about it. Now Islam is advancing in Europe. And he is very aggressive. He rejects oursvalues, what is dear to us. We value our freedom. And we will protect her. In order to understand the West, you must know that we have these problems. I'm very glad you don't have any and I hope it stays that way. Each country has its own history. And their present day. Vladimir: Islamists believe that after a heroic death in battle they will go to heaven. Experience shows that this is really inspiring. Although no one returned from paradise to confirm that they were right. How then is our practice of Phowa** different from their belief? Who can confirm the real existence of Bardo and rebirth, who visited Devachan, the pure land of Buddha Amitaba, to tell us about this? Has anyone ever returned from the dead? Evgeniy: Many people want to live forever... Especially those who do not know how to properly manage one single life. It's nice to get another chance, to start all over again, to become young again, taking with you the best of the experience gained in this life and leaving behind the burden of mistakes and losses.... Maybe we are just wishful thinking? Ole: I think that he was in Devachen. I am sure about that. I had my 88th parachute jump where I learned to sit in a free fall meditation pose. Then I forgot to look at the altimeter, because when I meditate, I am in space. My parachute opened at an altitude of 80 meters and I landed on concrete and was completely destroyed. The top of my right leg looked like "early cubism." My femur neck was broken in 3 places and I had internal hemorrhage. In fact, I was really dying. And while I was in the hospital, my friend, whom I was supposed to transport to the Pure Land, died. I transferred him to the heart of the Red Buddha, on whom I meditated and spent probably a couple of hours in this state. While visiting different Pure Countries, I experienced firsthand all the possibilities that were there. I am a man of the military generation, I am 69 years old and we are not very soft. And yet, for the next 10 years, when I told people about how wonderful it was in the Pure Land, my face was wet with tears. I saw unimaginably beautiful things there. For some of this time I was clinically dead. I think I saw Dewachen, this is my subjective understanding. This is my own experience. I have no reason to doubt him. And this is the best place to go. Vladimir: If we pass Pkhova successfully and we have a clear sign, does this mean that when we die, now everything will happen to us automatically according to a given scenario? Will we miss the moment of Clear Light as a result? Is it true that by “paving the way” to the Pure Land we deprive ourselves of the chance to achieve Enlightenment at the moment of death? Ole: This is a very good question, and it contains a challenge. The fact is that your Mind is not only the white energy of the father and the red energy of the mother, it is also Awareness that contains and is aware of everything. With Phowa you get the highest level you can achieve. Maintaining awareness at the moment of death gives you the chance to directly realize Enlightenment. So the possibilities are not less, but more. Everything will depend on you. There is another interesting point in connection with modern medicine. More precisely, with the topic of organ transplantation. I think now I will disturb many people and destroy several familiar ideas. Usually, when breathing stops and the electrical activity of the brain fades, they say that the person is dead. And if he bequeathed his organs, at that moment they begin to cut him up and send his organs in different directions to other people. It is believed that the person has died, although in fact his Mind still remains there for 20-30 minutes, and watches what is happening. This is true. I think that this may hinder our idealists if they see that their body is being treated like a piece of meat. Therefore, I advise organizing some kind of significant ritual if it is really necessary to remove organs after death. Not necessarily Buddhist. The same thing happens to non-Buddhists. Someone must speak, and really put sincere feelings into the words, addressing the deceased,thank him for acting so nobly, that this is a wonderful and admirable act: “Reverend, look and rejoice, it happened that you could no longer live in this body, but how much good you do by donating your organs to others, we are all grateful to you and happy that we knew you....” I hope that they will start doing this. This will make a lot of sense and benefit for everyone. Cardiologist Piet von Lomel described 344 cases of patients with clinical death, and he documented that after they were brought back to life they knew exactly what was happening in the room. They said that they saw everything as if from above, and in some cases they could describe what was happening in the neighboring rooms. I repeat, this is not fantasy, not philosophy, these are scientifically documented facts. The confidence that consciousness can exist independently of matter, of the body, is very important. I think this is something amazing. Science beats materialism outright. We don’t need to be afraid that death is the end of everything. Vladimir: I would like to be fearless. You said that after a course of Phowa, the fear of death disappears. This doesn't match my personal experience. All the usual human fears have not disappeared and are still in their usual places. When I'm scared, then I'm scared... I'm still a human being, not a fearless superman. If the feeling of fear persists in situations that are threatening, but not fatal, then where will the fear disappear in a situation of real mortal danger?! Ole: There are interesting data on the behavior of people in situations of physical danger. For example, 2000 of my students jumped with a parachute with me. And if you ask the instructors with whom my students jumped, they will say: Buddhists, this is the best that can be. They never get sick while jumping! And this is very important for the one behind... They keep their eyes open. When the parachute opens, they want to control it and do all the possible things. This reputation is so good, people really become fearless. I guess I initially attract more interesting people…. However, no one canceled individual differences! Evgeniy: Perhaps we should not assign to Buddhist practice what is the responsibility of a psychotherapist? In modern psychology, for example in NLP, there are techniques for quickly getting rid of phobias and obsessive fears. From stage fright, or fear of heights, let's say. They really helped thousands of people, but no one will give you a 100% guarantee! These techniques usually work if you are interested and cooperative, meaning you follow the instructions exactly. But a person is not a machine, not everything is so simple.... Vladimir: Another fear, or rather a vague suspicion.... You said that Devachan is such a peaceful monastic place, there is a beautiful view and you can improve in the practice of meditation without any interference.... Is this really something like a monastery...?! What explains the fact that after Phowa is done to a person, you send his photograph to Tibetan monasteries? What other practices and rituals are they doing with her there and why? How does this affect the mind of the deceased? I wouldn't like to wake up as a monk one day! Ole: We want to do as much as possible for people. There are probably some among them who would receive more help in a monastic setting. In addition, we do everything to preserve Tibetan culture and knowledge. And this is possible if we work together: East and West. My wife Hannah and I have received several thousand initiations, but I myself refrain from handing them out left and right. We always invite High Tibetan Lamas to give all the necessary initiations. And Hannah and I decided that it was important to preserve this. Maybe I won’t guide someone to Dewachen, then the monks will guide him. In any case, they have three chances. First, I tell family and friends to do Phowa, then I do Phowa, and then we send them to the East. Triple guarantee. No one is doing any black magic with your photo. But if you don’t trust the method, if it makes you afraid, then you shouldn’tuse it. Evgeniy: Perhaps we should leave the work with fears to psychologists? As well as many other things that are common to people regardless of religion. And not assign the duties of a living god to a Buddhist teacher? All people are different, and if some people want to contemplate the deity, then for others it is important to deal with a living person of flesh and blood. Although before everything was not so humane. Buddhist practices were created many centuries ago. The world was very harsh back then. And they were little interested in spiritual subtleties. It was believed that if a student has good karma and a strong connection with the teacher, he will achieve results, although this will not be easy. No one promised that the path to Enlightenment would be easy and accessible! What about modern “Buddhism with a human face”? After all, much has been transferred from an era extremely far from the ideals of humanism. Teaching methods, for example. Experimental psychology has found that we remember no more than 10% of what we hear, up to 50% of what we see, and up to 90% of what we do in person. It was measured that after 17 minutes of listening to even the most interesting lecture or story, the attention of listeners is lost irrevocably! In light of these data, advanced countries are restructuring the education system. Lectures are increasingly being replaced by seminars, trainings and educational games. In Buddhism, everything is the same as thousands of years ago. Can studying the Buddhist dharma change? Is it possible to introduce new modern teaching technologies and ways of thinking into Buddhism? Ole: We have already changed a lot. We in Europe don't have to pretend to be Tibetans. This interesting scientific data gives us something to think about. When I teach, I also use body language. I first of all pay attention to how people sit, whether they lean back or lean forward, whether they react facially to my jokes, to their muscle tone and facial expression. I also use my own body to lead listeners in a certain way so that they can maintain attention for longer than 17 minutes. Also, my teachings are always a hint - a proposal that leads people to understand what is happening in themselves, it always remains something new and fresh. It’s not like a box with ready-made ideas is put on their head…. The goal is not to read the material to listeners and for people to memorize it. We need to give them an understanding of the processes that take place within themselves. I think we have a little more time at our disposal. If we're really talking about important things and people are interested. But there really is a final period when people “float away.” And then the teachings that can be conveyed are simpler. These are teachings about friendship, that we have a common basis, etc. I spend half an hour explaining to them that their Mind is Clear Light, that it is indestructible. And maybe they won’t understand it and won’t remember it, but they will remember that I wanted them to understand something very important for them. And then gradually, the information drops from the head to the level of experience, and people change and discover that they are much richer than they previously thought. Dharma is the direct transmission of experience. And it is open to everyone. Evgeniy: Buddhism is one of the oldest religions. The contribution of his worldview and meditative practices to the consciousness of the modern world is enormous. A number of trends in modern psychology have Buddhist roots. Many European philosophers and writers were inspired by the ideas of Buda. According to historian Arnold Toynbee, the twentieth century will go down in history not as the century of world wars, flights to the moon and atomic energy, but as the century of the arrival of Buddhism in the West. Albert Einstein argued that the only religion that can withstand the clash with modern science and retain its meaning for people is Buddhism. Were they right? Can a teaching created two and a half thousand years ago be modern? Is it worth preserving a system of ideas that corresponds to the mentality and social structure of the ancient world? Is it due for a radical revision today? We don't predict the future. And we remember the impermanence of everything that exists in the world. Perhaps the answers/